Joyce Tremblay's letter extracts

This information from two e-mail letters (Joyce to Ginny Haen) January 2001.

Hi Ginny

I am not sure that the William and Mariah Smith/Smyth shown on the chart are my great great grandparents but they sure could be as the dates appear to fit.

However, the John Bagnall who died at “Walnut Cottage” I do not believe was the brother of my great grandfather, Samuel Bagnall. I have full copies of all the documents when Samuel applied for Letters of Administration for John’s estate when he died in 1862. There are releases signed by some of his sisters and certainly it was not granted to a James Bagnall in Ireland. What I am really looking for is the will of their father, William Bagnall who died ca 1860 in Ireland leaving the farm of 225 acres to Samuel and John jointly. As I told you health reasons, at the moment, prevent me from going into the Registry Office in Chatham, Ontario to do a search of the title of this property in the hope that William’s Irish will is filed on the title. Unfortunately, families destroy a lot of documents without checking with other members of the family as to whether they are of any use. This happened when the widow of my uncle George Bagnell died and two of his children just chucked all documents into a bonfire and I know the documents were deeds going back to who owned the land originally. Such a loss! Again, I will have to do a search on the title now and get photostatic copies of the documents which certainly aren’t the same as “original” documents.

I was lucky, I guess, my Mother kept everything and I’m the only one in the family with anything that belonged to my grandparents, Thomas William Bagnell and Jeannette Bruette (Brouillet), including his pocketwatch and knife which were on him when he drowned in the Thames River. I also have three pieces of furniture that were in their home. My Mother was born in 1894 and she says they were in her home when she was a child.

Enough reminisces and I do hope we can find a link as I would like my Irish Bagnalls to have family somewhere.


Hi Ginny

Thanks for your input on the administration of the Estate of John Bagnall. It certainly is just a coincidence that two John Bagnall’s died within a couple of days of each other. I think I mentioned that I had photostatic copies of the documentation granting his brother, Samuel Bagnall, administration of his estate. An attorney representing two of their sisters, Maria and Jemima signed off their rights to administration. My great grandfather, Samuel Bagnall, did not go back to Ireland at any time as far as I know and certainly John, his brother, did not own property there as he was only 16 years of age when their father, William, brought 3 of his sons to Canada a couple of years after his wife (and their mother) died in 1846.

When I first started researching my Bagnall line I did find a Samuel Bagnall and John Bagnall who had property in the Township of Malahide, in the County of Elgin (Elgin being adjacent to Kent County) but, if memory serves me right, they were shown as owners of this land prior to my Bagnalls even arriving in Canada. I made some notes on these Bagnalls but have put them away somewhere. I think they ended up in and around the London, Ontario area. There was also a Clarence Bagnall from Dorchester ( near London, Ontario) who became the Chief of Police of Chatham, Ontario and I am not sure if he was descended from this other line of Bagnalls. I do know that he had an Irish background.

In 1987 I was in contact with Carolyn Kenison who was trying to find the family of Jemima Bagnall who had married into her Brereton line and Carolyn sent me a copy of a letter you had sent her with a pedigree chart of your line – small world isn/t it? Carlyn and I kept in touch and as the Jemima Bagnall she was looking for was, in fact, the sister of my great grandfather, Samuel Bagnall, and we exchanged information.

Insofar as the 205 acres that George Bagnall mentioned being a grant from the Crown is concerned, that is news to me. The only way George would know that is if he has the original documents showing that the land was a Crown grant. It is my understanding that the land my great great grandfather, William Bagnall, putchased in Dover Township, Kent County was owned by a Sally Ainsley. However, as I said, I really have to go to the Registry Office to search the title to that acreage. When William Bagnall died in Ireland around 1860 he evidently left this land jointly to my great grandfather, Samuel Bagnall, and John Bagnall, Samuel’s brother, jointly as this was sworn to by Samuel when he applied for Letters of Administration to John’s estate when he died in 1862. It was also my understanding that there were 225 acres but I may be wrong there. When my great grandfather, Samuel Bagnall, retired he split his land and gave 50 acres to each of his sons, John, George and Charles but none to my grandfather, Thomas Bagnall, and I wonder if he kept 50 acres for himself. My grandfather, Thomas Bagnall, lived up the Thames River from “Bagnall’s Corners” on a 50 acre farm. Again, I have to search the title to this farm to see whether or not Samuel Bagnall bought it for Thomas or whether Thomas bought it himself when he got married. The unfortunate part is that when the widow of my mother’s brother, George Bagnall, died (they lived on the farm) two of her children went in to clean up and three all documentation such as deeds and mortgage papers in a bonfire and I understand that he had documentation right back to the first owner of the land – what a tragedy!

When I first sent along the particulars of William Bagnall and his 3 sons who came to Canada and the other children left in Ireland, I just sent a very brief outline. I think I should send an expanded version just in case some descendants read Ray’s website and see an ancestor. I don’t have that much more information except for actual dates.

I am sorry the Smyth family of Harwich Township did not fit your profile. It was just a hunch that they might have been related to Mariah Smith/Smyth the wife of my great, great grandfather, William Bagnall, as when Samuel got married he lived in Harwich Township for a couple of years on land owned by a man named Smyth and it certainly would make sense if he was a relative of his mother.

As you mentioned, all sorts of possibilities arise when doing genealogy and the names Samuel, John and George were certainly favourite names for the Bagnall families. I think I mentioned that I found it extremely difficult to get any information from sources in Ireland without paying two legs and two arms. Also, while I belonged to all sorts of Family History Societies and the Society of Genealogists, subscribed to Family Tree Magazine and listed my interests, I never really had any luck in finding anyone researching Bagnalls of Co. Westmeath, not even from Australia where Timothy Bagnall was supposed to have emigrated and died.

On that note will say goodnight and hope that something will surface that will link my line with the rest.



To Go Back to this sub-directory Home here.

Send mail to Joyce Tremblay by click here.

Send mail to Ray Parsons by clicking here.